Curse

Aaaaagh · May 29, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Hammers seem to have a slight disadvantage when compared to axes and swords. These disadvantages are swing speed, giving up an offhand item and low-damaging skills (or just plain inferior skills of the same type when compared to axes/swords). I understand that they do slightly more damage, and have alot of knockdown skills, these bonuses do not make up for the disadvantages however.

To balance hammers I suggest giving them a slight armor penetration bonus. I do not know what kind of bonus would balance them, I would guess between 5 and 15 percent.

Feedback?

Anariel · May 29, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Hammers are quite devastating to casters due to knockdown, huge damage and are really best for PvP (earth shaker, devastating hammer, counter blow, hammer bash, etc.). Axes imo is the worst for PvP but very good for PvE. Swords are in the middle, decent for PvE (hundred blades) and decent for PvP (hamstring, savage slash).

Xellos · May 29, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Warriors are lacking.

Aaaaagh · May 29, 2005, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anariel

Hammers are quite devastating to casters due to knockdown, huge damage and are really best for PvP (earth shaker, devastating hammer, counter blow, hammer bash, etc.). Axes imo is the worst for PvP but very good for PvE. Swords are in the middle, decent for PvE (hundred blades) and decent for PvP (hamstring, savage slash).

If you look at hammer skills compared to sword/axe you will see that they are not as good, save the knockdown. For insance, the hammer skill that does AE damage is easily interupted and only does +8 extra damage. Where the sword attack hits everything around twice and the axe attack is not easily interupted and hits for +16(?) extra damage. Same with skill interupts.

I realize knockdown is good, however, knockdown skills take alot of adrenaline as well. Hammers gain adren. slower...

I heard that hammer was nerfed a bit in Beta because the knockdown was too good. Now, it seems they sacrifice far too much for a few knockdown skills, especially when axe and sword both have interupts that could substitute nearly as well.

Perishiko ReLLiK · May 29, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I agree to a certain extent, because i personaly just think that swords are Incredibly overpowered....

While swords may not be able to do much to undead fleshless creatures... that doesnt make them balanced out in pvp... sorry, but where's my final attack that deals 155 dmg for an axe / hammer?

Why is it, that a sword can do bleeding/cripple/deep wound... when axes have, deep wound / cripple(On a second adrenaline strike, requiring them to have a deep wound... which means they have to sit there, and let you aquire enough adrenaline to use it, and it's a snare ability... so umm... damn, gimped again), and weakness (Which doesnt compair to bleeding... as it keeps them damaged as they run away... and bulls charge and such... well... most characters are becoming smart enough to use 35% speed boosts... and so the warrior's are starting to be seen less and less as hammers and axes...

I now see only sword warriors in pvp... and well, i wouldnt use any other either... because the sword has it all... one hit cripple to keep em where you want em, and then bleeding if they block/evade your un-evadable... which helps to continue damaging them... its power hit moves deal Much more dmg in compairison to axes/hammers... and then, to add on top of all that... final thrust (A non elite thats CHEAP as hell, i mean... really... losing all adrenalin hasnt been a cut back on that At all, and i mean.. if you stack out elementalist dmg with your fire sword, say you use this attack, and hit with a critical... i mean... what spell/other physical dmg can even come close to compairing with 230 dmg in one hit?)

The Red Knight · May 29, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Hammer > sword =/ Depending on your build fighting sword warriors can be a awesome thing

Exion · May 29, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I played the pre-made snowman warrior build before they changed it and I had alot of fun using hammers,when they'd try to run I'd knock them down with water trident,when I'm upclose I'm knocking them down,needless to say this makes being a monk feel like a living hell,although I prefer the mesmer skill blackout to knockdown.

eventhorizen · May 29, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Dude you have severe misinformation. Iv not play tested every warrior build, but my hammer warrior blows your damage out of the water. 260 is my highest crit so far, on a soft target obviously, and I can increase my hammer mastery and strength even further.
Infact iv got a few skill combos that when I can use them in the correct order, adrenaline and energy is high e.g. will absolutly maul through any opponent, except perhaps a warrior being kept alive by a good monk.

5 good swings of my hammer can end elementalists/necros/mesmers even rangers easilly. Infact I could probably kill them in 3 hits if I got nice big damage hits.

Downside, no shield, thats about it lol.

taion · May 29, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

What you're ignoring, though, is that hammers attack at a significantly slower rate than swords and axes. Building up high adrenaline with a hammer takes a while.

Anariel · May 30, 2005, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Hammer > Sword for killing monks, period. I've never died to a lone sword warrior without backup from another person. I've died to a lone hammer warrior, quite a few times actually. Not many monks are warrior secondaries and bring along balanced stance for PvP. Most monks carry mending or condition removals.

Studio Ghibli · May 30, 2005, 03:04 AM // 03:04

.. why swords > axes in pvp?

this_barb · May 30, 2005, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Here's an idea:

I would believe that the actual damage caused by a normal hammer blow would be negligible at best (like most attacks), so why not change to an axe or sword to gain adrenaline faster?

Masut · May 30, 2005, 04:10 AM // 04:10

I've used Axes in PvP and have sometimes wiped out the majority of the opposite team.

Jackathan · May 30, 2005, 04:15 AM // 04:15

hammers dont look as cool as swords!

horohoro08 · May 30, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

i'd say that hammers are quite powerful, but it has a major downside. the ONLY THING IT CAN DO is knock down. thats nothing compare to swords or axes. and also, all the GOOD knock down skills are elites, which u cant capture until really late in game. eg. devastation hammer, backbreaker, earth shaker, etc. devs should improve hammers

Aaaaagh · May 30, 2005, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

Dude you have severe misinformation. Iv not play tested every warrior build, but my hammer warrior blows your damage out of the water. 260 is my highest crit so far, on a soft target obviously, and I can increase my hammer mastery and strength even further.
Infact iv got a few skill combos that when I can use them in the correct order, adrenaline and energy is high e.g. will absolutly maul through any opponent, except perhaps a warrior being kept alive by a good monk.

5 good swings of my hammer can end elementalists/necros/mesmers even rangers easilly. Infact I could probably kill them in 3 hits if I got nice big damage hits.

Downside, no shield, thats about it lol.

No missinformation about it, Im talking from a good deal of experience here. Yes a hammer hits hard, but I believe its DPS (Damage Per Second) is the same as swords and axes--perhaps slightly more. Adrenal skills take longer to build, and alot of the better hammer skills require a whopping 10 adren. The bottom line is a sword warrior has alot more options and raw damage (because of skills) then a hammer.

You say the only downside is no shield, well slower adrenaline is definately another one, as well as a lack of condition rendering skills. If you want to get picky you could whine about a lack of damage dealing skills as well as lack of a decent AE damage for pve.

So, a hammer warrior takes more damage, and does less damage then a sword warrior. A sword warrior also has more 'tools' with a snare attack and great AE damage.

Jackell · May 30, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I've never played a warrior, but on my three chracters (R/E, N/Mo and pure Mo) a hammer warrior always seems to have better luck killing me than axe warriors, and axe warriors more than swords. I dunno, just my experience.

eventhorizen · May 30, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

No missinformation about it, Im talking from a good deal of experience here. Yes a hammer hits hard, but I believe its DPS (Damage Per Second) is the same as swords and axes--perhaps slightly more. Adrenal skills take longer to build, and alot of the better hammer skills require a whopping 10 adren. The bottom line is a sword warrior has alot more options and raw damage (because of skills) then a hammer.

You say the only downside is no shield, well slower adrenaline is definately another one, as well as a lack of condition rendering skills. If you want to get picky you could whine about a lack of damage dealing skills as well as lack of a decent AE damage for pve.

So, a hammer warrior takes more damage, and does less damage then a sword warrior. A sword warrior also has more 'tools' with a snare attack and great AE damage.

Absolute crap, your experiance is not with Guild Wars. I suggest you look at hammer skill adrenaline requirements and youll see theyre around 6-8 adrenaline. Also as far as conditions go, staggering blow adds weakness, and desperation blow will add bleeding, crippled, deep wound, or weakness to a foe.
I know of 2 attacks, one is an attack that requires energy, the other adrenaline, that iv had do over 250 damage at various points. Qeue these 2 skills up with correctly with a hammer bash to knockdown a foe, a condition added via desperation, or on a weakened warrior and quite simply a foe dies.

The fact you do not know how to inflict conditions onto an opponent with a hammer, combined with your statement that a sword will inflict greater amounts of single blow damage than a hammer shows that your own preconceptions blinds you to the truth.

I seriously suggest you go check out these claims.

A sword bearer has a lot more options, can hamstring and inflict all sort of nasty wounds, and finish off with final thrust. If I catch your sword Warrior 1v1 in combat I will destroy it.

Good day.

Aaaaagh · May 30, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

Absolute crap, your experiance is not with Guild Wars. I suggest you look at hammer skill adrenaline requirements and youll see theyre around 6-8 adrenaline. Also as far as conditions go, staggering blow adds weakness, and desperation blow will add bleeding, crippled, deep wound, or weakness to a foe.
I know of 2 attacks, one is an attack that requires energy, the other adrenaline, that iv had do over 250 damage at various points. Qeue these 2 skills up with correctly with a hammer bash to knockdown a foe, a condition added via desperation, or on a weakened warrior and quite simply a foe dies.

The fact you do not know how to inflict conditions onto an opponent with a hammer, combined with your statement that a sword will inflict greater amounts of single blow damage than a hammer shows that your own preconceptions blinds you to the truth.

I seriously suggest you go check out these claims.

A sword bearer has a lot more options, can hamstring and inflict all sort of nasty wounds, and finish off with final thrust. If I catch your sword Warrior 1v1 in combat I will destroy it.

Good day.

Too much sugar? I didnt count desperation blow because I find it too unpredictable to use. You dont know which condition it will cause, therefore you cannot strategize with it.

I never said a sword will inflict greater amounts of single blow damage, I said when using skills a sword will outdamage a hammer, and the DPS is about the same. Please read and comprehend before you attack someone.

On adrenaline, hammers are the only weapon that has 10 adren requirements, I did not say they ALL took 10, just a few of the good ones do.

And btw, I dont play a sword war, I play a hammer war.

RepinsMirg · May 30, 2005, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

On adrenaline, hammers are the only weapon that has 10 adren requirements, I did not say they ALL took 10, just a few of the good ones do.

Final Thrust and Skull Crack anyone?